This week’s topic:
We continued discussing the hypothesis and some of the findings from last week’s incredible collaboration.
Reports referenced in call:
Platform Sourcing: How Fortune 500 Firms Are Adopting Online Freelancing Platforms
by Greetje F. Corporaal & Vili Lehdonvirta, Oxford Internet Institute University of Oxford, August 2017
Dynamic Open Talent: A Template for Developing, Implementing, Supporting and Measuring a Dynamic Open Talent (DOT) Strategy for a Global Company by Lisbeth Claus & Danielle Monaghan, HR Roundtable and Global HR Consortium, 2019
Chat Room Transcript:
00:18:47 Catherine McGowin: As allies who believe in the virtues and support the adoption of open talent and innovation models, we believe that we can make more meaningful progress together than apart. How might we come together and organize the open talent marketplace, overcome our most critical challenges, and reduce the friction that interferes with the adoption of this new paradigm for work? 00:27:32 Terry Sydoryk: surprising how fast the time goes by 00:28:19 Paul Estes: Update from NASA, Steve and Open Talent. I think we can sold this one: 00:28:24 Paul Estes: https://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-is-offering-20000-lunar-loo-build-a-toilet-challenge-2020-6 00:29:13 Tom O'Malley: Go browns! 00:31:31 Steve Rader: I think one of the keys to communicating this to organizations is really laying out how the traditional model simply is not sustainable in accessing the skills and technologies that are changing at increasing rates. 00:31:51 Open Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marymellino/ 00:32:08 Steve Rader: … and how the open talent/open innovation model is a way to keep up with those rates. 00:32:52 Open Assembly: https://lish.harvard.edu/ai-enterprise 00:33:09 Paul Estes: Important to focus on the how blended teams will work. it is not a binary choice in large organizations. 00:33:36 John Healy: agree Paul... 00:33:38 Steve Rader: @Paul. Yes! 00:33:49 Gavin McClafferty: @Steve - I agree. The latest research from the IMF indicates a 30X greater impact than the previous global recession. This makes the case for new models far easier. 00:34:51 Gavin McClafferty: @Steve - add to that the erosion of office based work then something very interesting emerges. 00:35:17 Steve Rader: I also think that the efforts that folks in this group are working around digital trust is going to be key to getting widespread adoption. 00:35:33 Steve Rader: @Gavin Yes! 00:35:41 Gretta Corporaal: https://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/publications/platform-sourcing.pdf 00:36:48 Open Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grettacorporaal/ 00:37:03 Gavin McClafferty: @Steve - digital trust will create common ground, access to labour and a greater understanding of track record. 00:37:49 Mark Hannant: @Steve agreed. Building trust remotely is a vital thread 00:38:11 Vivek Anand: @Steve Rader - we at Workonomix are working on the portable trustable worker identity, which is key to reducing friction and enhancing adoption of open talent 00:38:28 Steve Rader: Marco and Karim’s book also got me thinking a lot about the staffing required for the “AI Factory” that will likely be instantiated in most every industry in the future… has anyone broken down the skill requirements for staffing that AI Factory model? 00:39:02 Steve Rader: @Vivek - That sounds amazing! I’d love to see what you guys are doing. 00:39:15 Rich Copsey: @Steve... Halfway thru the book now and could not agree more 00:40:18 Open Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpena/ 00:40:32 Ty Montague: @Steve very much agree. It’s a great book. 00:41:21 Gretta Corporaal: Here’s my linkedin: 00:41:22 Gretta Corporaal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grettacorporaal/ 00:41:37 Gretta Corporaal: Personal website: greetjecorporaal.com 00:42:07 Will Krispin: I'm new to this, but I'd love to hear what everyone thinks about the term "gig economy," especially when it comes to the future of work within larger business and enterprise? It seems to me there is a trend to a more flexible workforce which operates increasingly in the cloud, but the notion of "gig" implies (to me) little to no relationship as well as short term and I think what the business of the future is looking of is flexibility but not gigs. We at 99designs are experimenting with building a more managed and long term relationship layer on top of our community, and I feel that “gig work” doesn't sufficiently describe what we are offering or what businesses are looking for. 00:42:35 Open Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carinknoop/ 00:42:39 Jin Paik: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jin-paik-967ba8196_ai-in-the-enterprise-how-do-i-get-started-activity-6681956450203418625-r8bh 00:43:27 Catherine McGowin: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Pkj9yqjdVWcoOTYVlXyEK6-JZ3VnD4lXN0EYlN8PR0/edit?usp=sharing 00:43:31 Steve Rader: In the inclusion topic…I just had a great conversation with Wendy Gonzalez at Samasource yesterday and it is amazing the work they are doing to bring people into the workforce that would normally have a really hard time around the world. The super important work that Leila Janah started is still going strong! 00:43:58 Jin Paik: Finding from LISH study on scientist and productivity at the start of COVID: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3608302 00:44:05 Andy Barnes: Hi Will I want to put together a ‘table’ that shows the different levels of ‘non perm’ staff from gig/short term/long term/consultancy/insight/talent as in my mind all these are different…. 00:44:43 Paul Estes: Really recommend everyone reading her book Give Work (change my life) - https://www.amazon.com/Give-Work-Reversing-Poverty-Time/dp/0735211892 00:44:51 Steve Rader: @Will great insights… I hadn’t thought of the terminology and how that may be a barrier to the real relational opportunities that come with open talent platforms. 00:45:11 Steve Rader: @Paul - agree!! A MUST Read! 00:45:59 Andy Barnes: My daughter turned on every Alexa in the house during the breakout session 00:46:39 Wade: @Andy: I think your daughter is indicating something lol 00:46:50 Will Krispin: It would be great to put together a dictionary to increase clarity and constancy around all the terms 00:48:31 Open Assembly: Will, Seems like many of the B2B platforms we work with are not fond of the term “gig economy” for a variety of reasons. 00:48:48 Steve Rader: @Will…. We actually had a good discussion on this call a couple of months ago on the topic of terminology… might be good to revisit 00:48:50 Gretta Corporaal: Here’s a little piece of my lockdown hobby that you may enjoy: remote music with my colleague Pinar Ozcan: https://youtu.be/55acTBnw5KA 00:48:55 Andy Barnes: @wade her playlist is much cooler than mine? 00:49:48 Wade: https://www.thebalancesmb.com/are-freelancers-contractors-or-independent-contractors-3515143 00:50:17 Wade: @Andy: 4 sure ;) 00:50:39 Steve King: The Aspen Institute's Future of Work initiative is also looking at many of the issues this group is. See: https://www.aspeninstitute.org/programs/future-of-work/ 00:51:06 David Swift: Staffing Industry Analysts have a pretty good lexicon of terms in this space. 00:51:23 Steve Rader: I think one thing I haven’t heard as much about is that “Freelancing” (which has been around forever) is changing to more of “Platform-based-Freelancing” that looks very different. 00:51:46 Janice Stevenor Dale: We can build on “outsourcing” which has become a standard practice. 00:52:08 Wade: @Steve: mmmm. ... yes the distinction mmm.... 00:52:11 Wade: https://www.feedough.com/what-is-freelancing-how-to-become-a-freelancer-the-actionable-guide/ 00:53:08 Gavin McClafferty: @Steve - very interesting point. I haven’t see anything recently which explores the commoditisation of labour through platforms. 00:53:16 Catherine McGowin: As we come together and organize the open talent marketplace, overcome our most critical challenges, and reduce the friction that interferes with the adoption of this new paradigm for work, what industry groups/ communities/ movements/ products/services have you come across that would be useful for us to draw from for analogous inspiration? 00:53:27 Mary Mellino: ExoWorks 00:53:33 Mary Mellino: OpenExo 00:53:52 Mary Mellino: I can represent their POV in future discussions. An independent consultant for them. 00:53:57 Sheila Mahoney: the concept of "holacracy" has been coming up frequently in my work 00:53:58 Steve Rader: I find Uber and AirBnb as great analogies for having to move people from distrust to trust. 00:54:24 Steve Rader: @Mary, that would be super intersting 00:54:25 Will Krispin: I personally like the term distributed or flexible workforce because it focuses on the benefit for both the business and the talent rather than the role of the person 00:54:29 Janice Stevenor Dale: case studies like microsoft is a great idea... 00:54:52 Mary Mellino: Does anyone have good stats on gig talent adoption by industry, business function etc. 00:55:08 Michael Morris: International Chess Federation https://www.fide.com/ 00:55:26 Balaji Bondili: The two problems to solve for adoption that are critical. 1. Direct to customer (which account majority of freelance usage). 2. MSP/ Staffing agencies that are hundred's of millions of dollars. So, it isn't talent being not utilized, it is why efficiencies of market places not being utilized. 00:55:31 Bryan Peña: http://lexicon.staffingindustry.com/ 00:56:06 Wade: https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/global/Documents/HumanCapital/dttl-humancapital-trends6-open-talent-next-no-exp.pdf 00:56:13 David Swift: thanks Bryan 00:56:17 Open Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnwhealy/ 00:56:22 Andy Barnes: All new business models may suffer from what I call the ‘child new food problem’. That is: “What food is that?” “I don’t like it” “How do you know?” “You have never tried it”….. how do we convince our children to try new foods? 00:56:32 Steve Rader: One of the most interesting things about this shift is that it is an organic shift of workers out of the traditional model… organization are already seeing the effects in not being able to find the skills they need.. they just don’t necessarily their need to shift. 00:56:35 Janice Stevenor Dale: @John, yes, a large utility company in LA is not renewing floors of space given the new remote work model. Cleary a boost to the GDP, and will help economy recover faster 00:56:40 Shilpa Shah: Totally agree - its a mindset issue for most organisations 00:56:41 Balaji Bondili: The influencers to business leaders are Analysts like Gartner, Forrester, IDC among others that CIOs and others use to inform themselves. I looked at Gartner recently and it didn't adequately talk about these options. 00:56:53 Ty Montague: Do we think WeWork’s death means co-working is dead or do we think toxic leadership in co-working is dead? 00:57:23 Steve Rader: Wasn’t WeWork’s death was a mismanagement issue than a demand/shift issue? 00:57:34 Ty Montague: Maybe “death” is an exaggeration… coma? 00:57:36 Gavin McClafferty: @Shilpa - 100%. As Simon says - start with why??? 00:57:59 Shilpa Shah: Also trust/lack of trust is a big barrier to adoption 00:58:39 Steve Rader: This movement needs to shift corporate concepts of “recruiting and retaining talent” to “finding and using talent” 00:58:47 Carin-Isabel Knoop: HR functions remain risk averse and compliance driven 00:58:53 Janice Stevenor Dale: it may be that its cumbersome individual hire by individual hire….easier to hire groups, ie outsource… 00:59:08 Michael Morris: Agree with common language…OAQ v1 00:59:10 Gavin McClafferty: @Ty - WeWork had a solid business concept. I think they we’re ahead of their time. Their model is probably more relevant now than ever. 00:59:14 Sheila Mahoney: HR is not incentivized to innovate 00:59:18 Carin-Isabel Knoop: like care.com and other platforms gaining and sustain trust is key and fragile 00:59:24 John Healy: https://www.velocitycareerlabs.com/ 00:59:33 Janice Stevenor Dale: platforms must minimize risk, or take the risk…do they currently? performance guarantee? 00:59:37 Lisa Nelson: https://talent.canada.ca/en is an experimental/pilot project to create a searchable repository of pre-assessed cross-sector talent interested in government work. The goal is to allow government hiring managers the chance to rapidly and effectively staff for project-based work,while improving the employment opportunities and hiring experience for applicants. Free agents “Free Agents” are individuals who possess successful 01:00:04 Steve Rader: Maybe the opportunity is to differentiate the platform model and advantages of it... 01:00:09 Gavin McClafferty: @Sheila I agree. However, most of the rest of the organisation is set up to perpetuate the status quo. 01:00:48 Sheila Mahoney: @Gavin- yes. It is also interesting to see where HR sits in the C suite. Usually not the top dog 01:01:13 Gavin McClafferty: @David - agree. You need to create a compelling case for change. Show them what will happen if the current business model is perpetuated. 01:01:20 Steve Rader: I’m not sure that we are very good at describing the advantages of platforms (especial wrt AI/ML based matching and future capabilities based on collection of digital exhaust) 01:01:42 Gavin McClafferty: @Shiela - I often feel they overlooked and wrongly viewed as a support function. 01:01:51 John Healy: https://www.iftf.org/home/ 01:01:58 Carin-Isabel Knoop: @gavin and Sheila--risk aversion might be lowered now that having people on payroll and in offices is especially challenging 01:02:25 Carin-Isabel Knoop: perhaps a chance here to "help" HR with more flexible talent whose health and location risk is borne by the individual, not the firm, etc. 01:02:29 Arthur Ransier: To tie into John's opening, entrepreneurship being about understanding culture and going where culture wants to go --- framing the value proposition for open talent models around the environmental, social and governance (ESG) benefits is critical to starting this conversation with forward-thinking executives/decision-makers. ESG is increasingly more important for the 25-45 cohorts, who will be making these decisions in the next 5-10 years 01:02:52 Andy Barnes: HR = perm hires 01:03:11 Steve Rader: The web services API might be a good analogy.. where interfaces to open talent platforms are more plug-n-play with these HR systems. 01:03:32 Open Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-swift-7409641/ 01:03:42 Janice Stevenor Dale: with vaccine on the horizon, time is of the essence to solve the problem. 1) publish at least 5 case studies 2) minimize risk 3) provide for performance proven hiring of groups (faster up hiring) 4) solve for insurance and stability for workers 01:04:01 Gavin McClafferty: @Carin - yes, I think there is more understanding. The hardest part is that most organisations incentivise their people to perpetuate the same. The cancellation of bonuses and ongoing headcount reductions have created an appetite to think differently and address some of the parts that were broken. 01:04:03 Steve Rader: @Andy.. I go back to ….This movement needs to shift corporate concepts of “recruiting and retaining talent” to “finding and using talent” 01:04:12 Wade: @JohnH: VCL sounds intriguing 01:04:45 Andy Barnes: IR35 and AB5 are problematic but more for the ‘old’ model than platforms imho (ours is anyway) 01:04:49 Balaji Bondili: @Steve - Totally agree. I am working with so many companies, and the value statement on cost reduction and/ or quantifying the agility value is very tough. 01:05:20 John Healy: @Wade...they've done a stong job in developing a wide network across multiple segments of the domain 01:05:39 Carin-Isabel Knoop: @gavin and balaji, companies want more flex with office space and i think with people too 01:06:11 Wade: @JohnH: looks like it. have to chekc out in depth. 01:06:14 Arthur Ransier: @Andy Barnes -- I hold firm that the strategic value to HR is an ability to close gaps between an organizations vision/objectives and existing talent & capabilities -- with any internal/external talent OR starting the conversation about the use of a tool/service to enable existing talent 01:06:16 Carin-Isabel Knoop: good time to break contracts (leases as well as perm positions 01:06:25 Balaji Bondili: Also, here is Robert Half's list of strategic alliances - https://www.roberthalf.com/about-robert-half/strategic-alliances-and-relationships 01:06:32 Janice Stevenor Dale: industry specific…insurance/ financial services/ accounting / attorneys/ media/ etc. Identifiable with inherent cultures (perceptions)… 01:06:39 David Boghossian: @Steve — exactly: build the API between enterprises and platforms. 01:06:44 David Swift: Many people have a negative perception of work platforms as contributing to the Uberization of the economy. 01:06:47 John Healy: @steve....good comments....challenge comes in that many of the VC backed companies are unsure if they are platform companies or service providers... 01:07:02 Mary Mellino: for everyone ponder.....what does success look like? are organizations 50/50 full-time vs. gig resources? is return on human capital 10X over what it is today? 01:07:46 Steve Rader: @Healy interesting insight 01:08:07 Andy Barnes: @Mary success looks like happy workers, incentivised by learning, change and improvement ;-) 01:08:10 Open Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/topcodermike/ 01:08:33 Open Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tymontague/ 01:08:46 Gretta Corporaal: Hi all, here’s a high level overview of my iWork project and research agenda: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-IwnpQHRVn1sg49b0DpJAgWEpAFM9Bl8/view?usp=sharing Feel free to reach out if you’d like to chat more: firstname.lastname@example.org 01:08:47 Mary Mellino: @Andy - I agree. Can we quantify if though? 01:08:56 Janice Stevenor Dale: @Balaji, Half’s right on….align culture with crowd 01:09:02 Andy Barnes: @Mary the VCs cannot ;-) 01:09:09 Mary Mellino: what KPIs should we track.....I think workforce productivity is key. 01:09:10 Steve Rader: @Andy YES! 01:09:25 Tom O'Malley: Where to gain inspiration: Look at the core NEED that gig solves for then ask who has that need the most…it's there you will find the most advanced practices of gig. This is about reducing overhead and moving all costs to marginal costs. Look at who is most capital constrained, you will find those breaking norms the most. Startups have been doing 50%+ gig for years …completely reliant on it. Each startup has to develop our own GigOps processes and tools to make it happen because they have no choice.You will only get "change management" when the current state NEEDS to compete with a gig-ops company. It's as big and as analogous custom manufacturer was forced to compete with interchangeable parts. Look to the small - virtual companies to find the operating models of the future. 01:09:26 Sheila Mahoney: @Ty- define open 01:09:27 Janice Stevenor Dale: HeroX? 01:10:03 Sheila Mahoney: @Tom- great point!! 01:10:10 Will Krispin: I'm wondering if there are two fundamental issues around open talent platforms like 99designs: 1. they have been built and optimized around their initial SMB customers, because of that lacked behind on the enterprise compliance and feature requirements 2. Platforms also have their own unique processes and "force" customers to work within their parameters rather than being flexible being able to adjust to the customer's processes 3. Platforms are treated as technology and not so much as talent solutions, which could be another reason enterprises engage freelance talent on a more individual basis. One solution could be to make it easier for platforms to partner with companies like KellyOCG or even tools like asana and Workfront that enable easier access and adoption within enterprises. Love the idea of reducing the number of technologies and tools and unifying within already established tools and processes 01:10:19 Gavin McClafferty: @Ty - funny you should say that. I have just founded a startup to cover exactly that. 1981ventures.com 01:11:03 Wade: 3drops is great SaaS design studio in Sweden 01:12:16 Janice Stevenor Dale: @Ty or partner the new startups with the big companies less willing to change…. 01:12:20 Michael Morris: It is a dated list but there is a great book : Exponential Organizations by Salim Ismail….they have a list of exponential orgs in there (based on his definition). oops…sorry, meant that to be everyone:) 01:13:03 Balaji Bondili: Team, sorry need to run! As always an awesome session. 01:13:47 Tom O'Malley: Exactly- Its an operating model…not a tech platform 01:14:00 Arthur Ransier: people > process > technology 01:14:09 Rich Copsey: operating model... yes!! 01:14:09 Wade: @LisaN: Talent.Canada.ca seems to be the governemen t version of VelocityCareerLabs igood find... 01:14:11 Gavin McClafferty: @Dave - it’s an approach. 01:14:28 Rich Copsey: gotta make a move... great call everyone! 01:15:08 Sheila Mahoney: well said David!!! 01:15:26 Andy Barnes: 6prog next training course … training HR professionals for the Future of Work….. 01:15:37 John Healy: amen....letsgo! 01:15:38 Andy Barnes: Stick & carrot approach! 01:16:41 Andy Barnes: Thanks John 01:16:42 Sheila Mahoney: great meeting, thank you!! 01:16:44 Mark Hannant: Remote work is a culture issue not a technology one 01:16:45 David Boghossian: @David — it tying up talent is the goal then gig work is the opposite of that… 01:16:55 Ashley Beaudoin: Great meeting today! And all the discussion in the chat. 01:17:02 Catherine McGowin: Ongoing feedback welcome always 01:17:11 Gretta Corporaal: Greet connecting and meeting today!