Carin-Isabel Knoop is an Executive Director at Harvard Business School and she is passionate about encouraging human sustainability and equal access at work. Her recent article, Burnout in the “Passion Economy”: Mental Health for Open Talent, sheds light on the fact that open talent platforms are in a unique position to pioneer and design the future of work with an eye on the mental health of freelancers. Today Carin led an open discussion about this important topic with members of our community.
Special thanks to Adam Morehead, Vice President, Community & Marketing at Topcoder, Patrick Orr Vice President, of Growth at Communo and Ray Wolf, CEO at A2K Partners for helping kick off this discussion.
Chat room transcript:
00:03:32 Bahia El Oddi: Hello everyone!
00:05:05 Mafé Rabino: Warm Greetings Everyone!!!
00:05:24 Lucas Meyers: Hello Mafé! Plant based for the win!
00:10:40 Mafé Rabino: Hi Lucas!!!
00:11:34 Balaji Bondili: is that open to join?
00:11:38 Alla Valente: channeling the innovation at NASA case study
00:11:55 CTW: NASA Event: https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/coeci_agenda_2021.pdf
00:13:08 CTW: Workana: https://www.workana.com/
00:13:24 CTW: Unibeez: https://www.unibeez.com/
00:13:47 Todd Brous: #HBAP!
00:14:08 CTW: Patrick Orr: https://www.linkedin.com/in/williampatrickorr/
00:14:16 Alla Valente: I’m based in sunny NYC!
00:16:21 Martin Dow: Hi All – also new here – Martin Dow, representing Open-Source Learning Academy, https://opensourcelearning.net/ . We’re putting together Open-Source Learning Protocols, human-centred tech for peer-based learning and cohort learning groups
00:17:12 Julie Shannan- VentureLab: Especially working alone most of the time
00:17:37 CTW: Carin-Isabel Knoop: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carinknoop/
00:17:53 Chris “Link” Duarte: These calls have give my lifesaver
00:18:09 Thomas OMalley: Wow…thanks for sharing John. Huge.
00:18:36 Mafé Rabino: Welcome to CTW @Martin Dow!!! You made it🙂✨
00:19:56 Martin Dow: Very glad to be here @Mafe Rabino 🙂 thankyou!
00:20:26 CTW: Adam Morehead: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adroc/
00:22:46 Chris “Link” Duarte: Like “water-cooler” conversations on lunch hour that highlight a topic to discuss. Love it
00:23:04 CTW: Topcoder Open ’21: https://tco21.topcoder.com/
00:24:44 ashley beaudoin: It’s great point. Not everything we do needs to ‘scale.
00:25:58 Raymond Wolf: Check-in texts are getting a good response. Followed by “sending good thoughts your way”….not so much a conversation, rather a human touch to say you matter.
00:27:45 Chris “Link” Duarte: There is a lot being done on community champion programs to engage workers in supportive conversations too https://www.cscce.org/resources/community-champions-programs/
00:28:59 Bahia El Oddi: Very good points around not having check-ins from colleagues and coworkers as freelancers/entrepreneurs. No one really perceive that something is changing, not even us sometimes.
00:29:52 Raymond Wolf: our freelancer often join our company thinking that they will be treated differently then employees and are surprised when they are not….the learning here is no one trains companies on how to work with freelancers….so have the conversation
00:30:11 ashley beaudoin: Such great points, @William
00:31:10 CTW: Communo: https://join.communo.com/
00:33:09 Chris “Link” Duarte: Freedom from the timeclock
00:34:06 John Healy: +1 @Carin on “fit” – very different from “match” (having the necessary skills); fit takes us into many questions regarding culture, personal needs, location, etc.
00:35:15 CTW: Ray Wolf: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raymondwolf/
00:37:13 Lucas Meyers: I hope the discussion around de-transactionlization of digital communities and its relevance to decentralization, mental health and nodal empowerment continues. Go CTW.
00:37:34 Chris “Link” Duarte: Lucas +1
00:38:36 Alla Valente: HIPAA regulations would protect that data from being shared with employers.
00:38:52 Wade: @Lucas: dang that’s a mouthful. a Cambridge answer. what’s “nodal empowerment”…? what would “de-transactionalization of digital communitues” look like…?
00:39:49 Adam Morehead: Yeah we are in talk with a provider to provide global benefits – lots of hurdles but they want to solve it so its its moving
00:40:22 Ellie Bracciaforte: We’ve noticed this through interviews to our community. Loneliness, mainly for people living alone. WFH, not going out for days at a time sometimes. Having your working desk at your bedroom, all things that hit harder during a pandemic.
00:41:21 Chris “Link” Duarte: I am so glad this is being brought up. The notion of “benefits” and what kind of health apps exist out there that can help supplement cost of health services without having to purchase health insurance- there are some successful models for the LGBTQ community because there is such a gap in specialized care- so it went online
00:41:24 CTW: Balaji Bondili https://www.linkedin.com/in/balajibondili/
00:42:27 Chris “Link” Duarte: example o good online support- https://www.modernhealth.com/circles
00:43:14 Wade: thevillageapp.co, Life360
00:43:56 Steve King: The coworking industry has done a lot of work on freelancers/remote workers and loneliness. We wrote an article on this topic a few years ago: https://hbr.org/2017/12/coworking-is-not-about-workspace-its-about-feeling-less-lonely
00:44:23 Lucas Meyers: Nodal empowerment = microcommunities that self govern and self heal. De-tranactionalization stems from WOrr’s struggle.
00:44:42 Wade: togetherall.com, iprevail.com (matches/connects to mentor)
00:44:59 Wade: @Lucas: thanks
00:45:11 Chris “Link” Duarte: Wade good resources!
00:45:32 CTW: Mafé Rabino: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maf%C3%A9rabino/
00:46:55 CTW: Bryan Pena: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpena/
00:46:57 Adam Morehead: https://safetywing.com/nomad-health
00:47:35 Wade: https://onemind.org/psyberguide/, https://onemindpsyberguide.org/
00:47:45 Thomas OMalley: I’m your friend Brian.
00:48:16 Chris “Link” Duarte: The future of work arena can really set the stage for what partnership should look like. Merely having a tab on their website with links to support groups, third party services, etc. There doesn’t have to be a reliance to build it in-house- we just need to create protections around how PHI is shared
00:48:26 Bryan Pena: And I’m yours Tom…..
00:48:37 Wade: @Adam: very interesting service for digital nomadic segments
00:49:14 CTW: Alla Valente: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allavalente/
00:49:27 Ellie Bracciaforte: I have a question around this, how much can we really get involved? More so with independent contractors/freelancers. It’s very sensitive at so many levels. We’ve been working a bit towards more practical/material solutions but not on the mental health side.
00:52:08 Thomas OMalley: If tech is the enabler of stress, can it also then help to mitigate. Perhaps integrating data form platforms and devices can help us detect really early signs of behavior change. Are there examples of that already?
00:52:31 Lucas Meyers: “Sleep is the killer app for mental health.”
00:52:32 John Healy: equally important to speak openly about engaging support for mental health so we can remove the stigma associated
00:52:41 Balaji Bondili: Love how Carin is running this like a business school class. Everybody raising hands, and waiting. Love it!
00:52:44 Raymond Wolf: As an organization I believe we could offer a low cost asymmetrical mental health (texting based), on click support via CTW or as a plug in for the freelancer platforms.
00:52:52 Adam Morehead: Apple telling you stop… take a breadth
00:52:53 Todd Brous: @Balaji: +1
00:53:04 Adam Morehead: Nudges… reminders
00:53:21 Todd Brous: (Im concerned we’re gonna be cold called…)
00:53:42 Adam Morehead: Take a breath
00:53:45 Chris “Link” Duarte: Todd- only when you are least prepared
00:54:06 Todd Brous: @Link: OMG! Right!!
00:54:57 Raymond Wolf: …even a free self check assessment for the freelancer community such as the GAD7 or PHQ9….also with some educational resources
00:55:33 John Healy: back to the red/yellow/green days that used to be core to the opening of the breakouts!
00:55:48 Matt Dowling: Awesome to hear you speak so openly and honestly, John. I hear you.
00:56:31 Bahia El Oddi: excellent question
00:57:11 Wade: @Raymond: good ideas. mix of bot and dashboard
00:57:23 Alla Valente: There’s so much shame in mental health… such a stigma. It has to change.
00:57:32 Chris “Link” Duarte: Mental health definitions and DSM-based theories came along before online did- ooollllddd models
00:57:37 Thomas OMalley: Sort of a perfect storm…mental health resources at an all-time low (measured by mental health hospital beds). US very low per capita already.
00:58:00 john winsor: I love that, John! Let’s do that.
00:58:22 Todd Brous: so… what’s the solution? Can Open Talent platforms offer additional services for their communities of workers?
00:59:10 john winsor: I think what we’re doing right now is an important start. Talking about it. Struggling with it. Starting to start the conversation.
00:59:25 Todd Brous: @John: +100
00:59:46 Wade: @Chr8s: I’m not hot on the DSM as most labels are cyclical anyways. Whole person assessment addressing nutrtion, sleep, hormones and paychosocial
00:59:47 Julie Shannan- VentureLab: Such an important conversation! Thank you
01:00:09 Chris “Link” Duarte: Wade +1 agree 100%
01:00:43 Todd Brous: We need a business model conversation… is there a business incentive that meets these needs?
01:01:24 Wade: I read a book that transformed my mind around mental health “The Meaning of Madness (Dr Chris Burton)” that explained why the DSM labels are cyclical
01:01:49 Chris “Link” Duarte: the stigma of “diagnosis” makes people afraid to seek out help
01:02:29 Chris “Link” Duarte: It’s isolating to not be able to say outloud “I am struggling” without the fear that the information is being collected to be used against you
01:02:40 Wade: also in the UK the org “A Disorder for Everyone” and there “Power Meaninh Threat Framework” is trying to replace labels
01:02:45 john winsor: Team, I have to bounce. Thanks so much for the amazing conversation, Carin.
01:02:51 Bryan Pena: Have to Jump. Thanks Carin. Great discussion and super important.
01:03:06 john winsor: I love all this community and an so grateful for everyone here.
01:03:10 Raymond Wolf: Platforms needs to look and operate more like consumer mobile applications where individuals are more comfortable engaging on these type of needs…meet them where they
01:03:25 Ellie Bracciaforte: We see this “excessive work” also in our platform.
01:03:30 Bahia El Oddi: https://carinisabelknoop.medium.com/to-improve-mental-health-at-work-focus-on-the-work-part-b6849a677a39
01:03:55 CTW: Erik Stettler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikstettler/
01:04:09 Ellie Bracciaforte: I have to leave too in a minute, thank you so much for this. It has triggered lots of things for my company and our platform.
01:04:13 Bahia El Oddi: the article mentioned by Carin on improving mental health at work – focusing on the work part. No wishy washy app
01:04:23 Wade: as humans we were created by God to work, help support and benefit others in a community
01:04:58 Thomas OMalley: A buddy system can be helpful…especially if its set to certain triggers…work load increase, rapid decrease in productivity or rating….thinking aloud.
01:05:56 CTW: Chris “Link” Duarte: https://www.linkedin.com/in/linkdreams/
01:06:10 Adam Morehead: Thank you for this! I do need to step away. Thank you
01:07:20 Todd Brous: @Link: +1
01:07:59 Alla Valente: search engines are not only collecting that data but also selling that data to third parties. Scary days.
01:08:15 Wade: the system isn’t much better as negative labels on health records can bias and anchor all health providers across the health journey on top of the s9cial/community mh stigma
01:08:41 John Healy: great conversation…very important!
01:09:10 Alla Valente: Great to “meet” everyone today. I have to drop. Thank you for a great discussion.
01:09:21 Todd Brous: L8r Alla!!!
01:09:22 Raymond Wolf: I would offer that we could “flip the scrip” and make mental wellbeing as part of keeping the entire workforce operating optimally….how can we redirect time and energy from outdated performance management efforts and redirect them toward doing something tangibly around mental well being which will have a direct effect on an individual personally and professionally
01:10:05 Bahia El Oddi: so true
01:10:24 Wade: Pascal said everybody has a Hod-suzed hole
01:10:40 Wade: ^ God sized-hole
01:10:46 Karina Rehavia: Thank you all for such a great exchange. Carin, thank you for making this possible. I have to go but look forward to continuing this conversation with all of you
01:11:33 Chris “Link” Duarte: The workers are out there. The talent is out there. They are looking for “employment” and income where they can be part of a community of support. People need to feel safe and protected to trust and be willing to form relationships with the platform they are working in
01:11:44 Lucas Meyers: personalization and narcissism. preach. my UX bones ache.
01:12:20 Chris “Link” Duarte: Support—not solve. Connect.
01:12:23 Martin Dow: @Raymond – agreed.. for our college learners (fully online) we structure some base categories for their blogs: “Mental Fitness” is one. It’s in the open, for the group. One example.. https://gabrielamendoza.smosla2022.osl.academy/category/fitness/mental-fitness/
01:12:26 Wade: that’s why you use psyberguide to triage apps
01:12:36 Todd Brous: @Lucah: <3
01:12:49 Todd Brous: Lucas
01:12:58 Thomas OMalley: Prob is, not just one platform….the data is fragmented across many platforms…Maybe it requires a collaboration (Slack, Zoom, Teams, Upwork, etc.)
01:13:05 Lucas Meyers: Pump MSFT Viva data into Sagemaker? Oh HIPAA…
01:13:21 Wade: https://ps.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ps.202000663
01:13:21 Todd Brous: Viva!!!!
01:13:28 Thomas OMalley: Thanks so much
01:13:33 Lucas Meyers: Thanks all! Bye everyone!!!
01:13:34 Chris “Link” Duarte: Hire social scientists to build in the human element of the platform
01:13:37 Todd Brous: We should do this again
01:13:39 Wade: App Eval Framework: https://ps.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ps.202000663
01:13:48 Lucas Meyers: Wade send links you posted please
01:13:50 Lucas Meyers: gotta run
01:13:54 William Orr: Thanks everyone – appreciate the opportunity. 👋
01:13:55 Chris “Link” Duarte: Social scientists to work alongside the engineers and data scientists
01:13:59 ashley beaudoin: Wonderful discussion thank you Carin!
01:14:04 Wade: @Thomas: +1
01:14:06 Bahia El Oddi: Thank you Carin and Patrick!
01:14:10 Bahia El Oddi: Thank you all!
01:14:11 Elena Sokolova: Thanks!
01:14:15 Catherine McGowin: 😍